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v13-20020a62a50d000000b006e45a0feffasm1232659pfm.71.2024.02.18.11.40.10 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 18 Feb 2024 11:40:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [cwmm-dev] CWMM testing so far with SMplayer and mplayer combined... To: CWMM Developers Mailing List References: Message-ID: Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2024 11:40:10 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (OS/2; Warp 4.5; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 02/18/24 10:29 AM, Roderick Klein wrote: > On 18-02-24 17:39, Dave Yeo wrote: >> On 02/18/24 06:12 AM, Roderick Klein wrote: >>>> >>>> AIUI, neither SMPlayer nor MPlayer is problematic to distribute, only >>>> some of the codecs. >>> >>> That is my concern. What codecs can we include and what we cannot >>> include ? >>> >>> Can we include the MP3 codec, I seem to remember we did not include in >>> ArcaOS as we where not certain if we could. mp3licensing.com closed up >>> shop. But how is that with other audio and video codecs ? >> >> I don't think the codecs are a concern as they're mostly used for >> decoding. > > Sorry this is not how it works for IP licensing schemes for video/audio > codecs, some of them, but most do not make a difference betweeen > decoding or encoding for licensing purposes. While true, the IP license holders most never go after individuals who decode, nor decoders in general. Witness the existence of FFMpeg. > >> Possible exceptions are the newest video codecs such as H265. >> Perhaps don't include mencoder.exe if worried about encoding. >> >>> >>> The orginal quickmotion and Windows 3.1 video codecs at the time we >>> started on MMOS/2 for ArcaOS where removed as well because of possible >>> patent issue's. They're long out of patent protection. >> >> Any patents that covered those have likely expired along with the MP3 >> codec. > > MP3 is audio. not video, that is covered by different patents and > licenses... Such as Indeo and Quicktime. What pattened is applicable to > MPLAYER I guess nobody knows. It's still a codec, whether video or audio doesn't matter. The last release of Indeo was in 2000, so any of the patents should have expired. It was also free of charge to be used. Quicktime is more of a container, Apple calls it a framework, you could have a QuickTime file containing nothing more then a bmp of the ArcaOS logo. You could also have a QuickTime file containing an H264 video where you, in theory, need a license. Looking quickly, I don't see any cases of a container causing legal problems, besides copyright when someone used the same source code. > >>>> Why not: >>>> >>>> 1. Split the codecs out into their own package. >>> >>> I am not an mplayer expert. But I just have a single mplayer exe file, >>> no codec directory with files. But if you split off the codecs what are >>> you left with ? >> >> MPlayer currently includes FFmpeg which by itself covers most codecs, >> demuxers etc, so there is little need for the old Windows codecs. >> What is possibly illegal is the code to crack DVD's. Whether anyone >> cares now a days, I don't know. Some Linux's used to download from >> Europe to avoid problems. At least Mint doesn't seem to do that anymore. > > The big difference is that most Linux distro's are available free of > charge. ArcaOS is a commercial project and that changes the whole > discussion. > Well that's an argument for not including MPlayer or FFmpeg on the ArcaOS ISO or advertising that it supports ripping DVD's and such. As it is, ArcaOS includes the Mozilla browsers that can play licensed codecs if a user does "yum install ffmpeg-libs" (might be a legacy package now) as well as Qt5, which enables various media players/web browsers to also use licensed codecs. Seems that if Arca Noae doesn't actually ship any licensed codecs, just directions on how to install them along with a disclaimer that the user has to check local laws, it would be the user installing the codecs that are responsible. Helps too if the codecs are hosted somewhere other then America, though as it is, Lewis is hosting mirrors that contain licensed codecs. Also see https://ffmpeg.org/legal.html scroll down to the Patent mini-faq, seems the problems happen when companies try making money using patented technologies. Dave