From: "Andy Willis" Received: from [192.168.100.201] (HELO mail.2rosenthals.com) by 2rosenthals.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.10) with ESMTPS id 1170476 for lswitcher-dev@2rosenthals.com; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 22:29:10 -0400 Received: from secmgr-va.2rosenthals.com ([50.73.8.217]:56074 helo=mail2.2rosenthals.com) by mail.2rosenthals.com with esmtps (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.82_1-5b7a7c0-XX) (envelope-from ) id 1kNoL6-00008V-2T for lswitcher-dev@2rosenthals.com; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 22:29:00 -0400 Received: from mail-yb1-f170.google.com ([209.85.219.170]:42111) by mail2.2rosenthals.com with esmtps (TLSv1.2:AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.82_1-5b7a7c0-XX) (envelope-from ) id 1kNoKw-0004y0-0U for lswitcher-dev@2rosenthals.com; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 22:28:50 -0400 Received: by mail-yb1-f170.google.com with SMTP id b142so2847313ybg.9 for ; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 19:28:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=GYTxuorIJL/yyQrrE/yYl+nldVG+hJVQZRkdaZXhq74=; b=q3f0BAyhR7SNdEBP/Tiekkh5wXfVEfA8fJkiSegoLlyEnaPVG+S8Nh/5VPTALMsnMa a+9BLYNphDeu4dPwT6dnOak8SPBmRhT6V1fCdnmPKsN/vhFsntd9msMhmFmtUxFVXXxI yeiFKyJZbenhOKJjwl+UQJ02Nwsjixqy+11kmi21H4EYns7JuFiKIlE9KALv5phh/2+n rzWwlyQLZn1+vbXxz2rSI0yonZiWSpxdMU9Ay83/68NFLq8OaKQe++PwWLCAEV6zfzHP rpKcAHCjwse+wNUmjZX4sy85aHGdP8MAHVJxM4dH63R+tCK9InpQqs/eB4T69eJpXEUx Zs7Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=GYTxuorIJL/yyQrrE/yYl+nldVG+hJVQZRkdaZXhq74=; b=MYJ0sPT46NgATiHI1nbbCHYDhNzMSqwfhB+n/Le3ZPgO6OJs74DDjITWJvnyLNxRGp 7XcYYrupsXYLgmUVeGF/OtAmbzvgHu8FwJETxX5F4jjotgI3ylzKGkjZEp7oiulInjRY Fe6PBc0IsVYuzvAilW6nm+gsjIda7lag8uu9T0xGGSwDbWDIP4Rc3m1Nly952wHIQfok 5lcX7lgRG+QoGuSB+NRnq+po9bhY4Ww7xW3ETngqF9lH/xpB/hZkR+20pDxCC2VaqrkZ 6eX9HvvkYgL+ir/cYjLCSdtBnFQbuE5s/+mh33YBK+94hbo3tpEANhXcolC/8sQ0zz4b vahA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533CNPFzP2zVebQz+277B6pvBOakItMR3TcnpjjLPTfhiSaaJJik A05LCTmjd4ptkCxP1LjPRCku0iHd3sIlxNRV/lCqziZm X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwbfjdSmbhh28NjpXOhpEZu43PsvRaA4PAGTQgjy5E+M585Y/bGYfGzWIJBBhCOqHrZ0V5odCjjk6x+itmyqvQ= X-Received: by 2002:a25:2413:: with SMTP id k19mr7449094ybk.362.1601519329312; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 19:28:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2020 21:28:36 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lswitcher-dev] lSwitcher-2-92-0-RC_12.wpi To: lSwitcher Developers Mailing List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b982c405b092c69e" --000000000000b982c405b092c69e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Sep 30, 2020, 20:44 Lewis wrote: > Hi... > > On 09/30/20 07:17 pm, Alfredo Fern=C3=A1ndez D=C3=ADaz wrote: > > Hi Gregg, > > > > On 20/09/27 20:33, Gregg Young wrote: > >> On Sun, 27 Sep 2020 13:44:59 +0200 Alfredo Fern=C3=A1ndez D=C3=ADaz wr= ote: > > ... > >>>> You have a plan for forcing the update of XWP on all systems and > >>>> preventing the use of Warp Center which we can't fix and you know > >>>> for certain these are the only programs that use this? > >>> > >>> I always have a plan. Phase I is getting to know how all of this work= s > >>> without looking at the code. Thanks for your help ;) > >> > >> Hi Alfred > >> > >> The real solution would be modifying WinSetDesktopWorkArea in PMMERGE > to > >> check to see if the desktop was already reduced and return an error o= n > >> any subsequent call except one to restore the desktop to its original > >> size. Of course this isn't going to happen. > > > > I certainly don't count on it happening, but it sounds like a pretty > well > > known thing. Hm. > > > > Indeed. It's just another of those well known PMMERGE quirks (I say > "quirks" > vs "bugs," as there is little to no chance of ever seeing such things > fixed). Of course, there's the DOT patch, so who knows? > > >> We need to remember this is an undocumented call and IBM never intende= d > >> for others to use it. As such it was not designed for that possibility= . > >> Just like it wasn't designed to be called with a less than full width > >> window over the reduced area. > > > > I see. > > > >> For completeness of your planning I can > >> probably hide the stupid desktop titlebar. > > > > Yes, that's probably better. > > > > But I like to know what that "big window" is consuming my screen... :-) > > >>> I imagine the lack of a WarpCenter object in ArcaOS kind of prevents > >>> its use. If the people at ArcaNoae were really determined to do that > >>> I imagine they could also prevent the SmartCenter class from being > >>> registered in the first place in future versions. That would be an ev= en > >>> safer way to be sure nothing will interfere with what's not even ther= e. > >>> And I imagine those people would want as many customers as possible t= o > >>> be reasonably updated. Seriously, how many people are left outside th= at > >>> lot (besides me ;)? > >> > >> Probably a lot; OS/2 users aren't exactly a progressive bunch. I know > one > >> that is still using a prehistoric version of lSwitcher;-) > > > > You think that's prehistoric? You should see the WordPerfect macros I'm > > writing lately ;p > > > > :-) > > > Point taken, though (listening to Lewis' input as well -- I used the > warp > > 3 launcher on Warp 4 for ages, hehe). > > > > As OS/2 users, we value our freedom of choice as opposed to whatever the > software publishers *think* is best for us. The LaunchPad caught on > quickly > for many of us, and served us well for some time. Heck, it took me a long > time to switch away from WarpCenter to XCenter. > > >>> Then it's all a matter of documenting things properly (do not do this > >>> and that for such and such reason: just a twist on the current docs) > and > >>> wait for reports of the three people in the entire universe who still > >>> see something break up in their systems. > >> > >> Fortunately they never bother to report anything. Think my breaking of > all > >> the non-English languages in 2.91 and never hearing anything about it. > > > > Hey, *I* reported that. Maybe not in time for 2.91, but... > > > > ... > >>> I'll have a look at that later. I've changed a couple of strings to > stay > >>> closer to the current English menu (lSwitcher settings -> Properties, > >>> and help mnemonics). > >> > >> Am I to read this that I need to change the hotkeys again. Remember th= e > >> mnemonics and hotkeys must match. > > > > As you probably have realized by now, no; I meant the mnemonics for > "Help" > > on the taskbar menu. So those two letters change on that menu alone, an= d > > the rest is untouched. > > > >>> Yeah, I've written better pieces. Have a look at the screenshot. > >>> 'Programs' is a WPS folder: you can make it 'Close' but not 'Quit'. > >>> Maybe the 'Close' menu should be replaced by its first child item, > which > >>> is the only one that works in that situation. > >> > >> I think Quit just needs to be removed it has no advantage over close > and > >> mostly doesn't work. > > > > It seems to work here for *applications* (not WPS folders). I am not > clear > > on the (dis)advantages when closing programs, though, but if there are > > none, why was it there in the first place? > > > > I think Gregg's point is that Quit doesn't really work any better or wors= e > than Close. IOW, I've never had a running process refuse to close but was > then able to use Quit. It works, surely, but when it does, Close should > also > work, so there's no real advantage to having the extra option. > It may be possible the application treats them differently. I could be conflating OS's here but an example I've seen it is in Firefox saving or not saving the tabs... close I _think_ closes them while quit saves them (that may be backwards). I am not sure if other apps may save or not depending on which is selected. > > > Having seen r13b, I think I concur with Lewis: I'd prefer a single > 'Close' > > lSwitcher menu entry for folders in the taskbar (since only that makes > > sense), but for programs, and if possible, I'd rather have a 'Close' > > submenu with the different methods. I think Dos/Sigkill look a bit > > daunting, not being normal words and that, and it would be better if at > > least non-tech-savvy people can tell right away they're just modes of > > closing a task. > > > > Exactly. > > >>>>> -Packaging: any particular reason why we keep old English readmes, > >>>>> i.e. > >>>>> readme.v*? > >>>> > >>>> I always package the historic readmes on my first release. They can > >>>> probably go away now. Thanks > > > > Don't forget for the GA - they're still in the rc13 wpi, I don't know > > whether intentionally. > > > >>> Thank you for all you do ^^ > >> > >> Your welcome. Thanks for your help and translations. > > > > :) > > > > Cheers > > -- > Lewis > > > =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-= =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D > This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to > the mailing list . > To unsubscribe, E-mail to: > To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to < > lswitcher-dev-digest@2rosenthals.com> > To switch to the INDEX mode, E-mail to < > lswitcher-dev-index@2rosenthals.com> > Send administrative queries to > To subscribe (new addresses), E-mail to: > and reply to the confirmation email. > Web archives are publicly available at: http://lists.2rosenthals.com > > This list is hosted by Rosenthal & Rosenthal, LLC > P.O. Box 281, Deer Park, NY 11729-0281. Non- > electronic communications related to content > contained in these messages should be directed > to the above address. (CAN-SPAM Act of 2003) > > =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-= =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D > > --000000000000b982c405b092c69e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Wed, Sep 30, 2020, 20:44 Lewis <lswitcher-dev@2rosenthals.com> wrote:
Hi...

On 09/30/20 07:17 pm, Alfredo Fern=C3=A1ndez D=C3=ADaz wrote:
> Hi Gregg,
>
> On 20/09/27 20:33, Gregg Young wrote:
>> On Sun, 27 Sep 2020 13:44:59 +0200 Alfredo Fern=C3=A1ndez D=C3=ADa= z wrote:
> ...
>>>> You have a plan for forcing the update of XWP on all syste= ms and
>>>> preventing the use of Warp Center which we can't fix a= nd you know
>>>> for certain these are the only programs that use this?
>>>
>>> I always have a plan. Phase I is getting to know how all of th= is works
>>> without looking at the code. Thanks for your help ;)
>>
>> Hi Alfred
>>
>> The real solution would be modifying=C2=A0 WinSetDesktopWorkArea i= n PMMERGE=C2=A0 to
>> check to see if the desktop was already reduced and return an erro= r=C2=A0 on
>> any subsequent call except one to restore the desktop to its origi= nal
>> size. Of course this isn't going to happen.
>
> I certainly don't count on it happening, but it sounds like a pret= ty well
> known thing. Hm.
>

Indeed. It's just another of those well known PMMERGE quirks (I say &qu= ot;quirks"
vs "bugs," as there is little to no chance of ever seeing such th= ings
fixed). Of course, there's the DOT patch, so who knows?

>> We need to remember this is an undocumented call and IBM never int= ended
>> for others to use it. As such it was not designed for that possibi= lity.
>> Just like it wasn't designed to be called with a less than ful= l width
>> window over the reduced area.
>
> I see.
>
>> For completeness of your planning I can
>> probably hide the stupid desktop titlebar.
>
> Yes, that's probably better.
>

But I like to know what that "big window" is consuming my screen.= .. :-)

>>> I imagine the lack of a WarpCenter object in ArcaOS kind of pr= events
>>> its use. If the people at ArcaNoae were really determined to d= o that
>>> I imagine they could also prevent the SmartCenter class from b= eing
>>> registered in the first place in future versions. That would b= e an even
>>> safer way to be sure nothing will interfere with what's no= t even there.
>>> And I imagine those people would want as many customers as pos= sible to
>>> be reasonably updated. Seriously, how many people are left out= side that
>>> lot (besides me ;)?
>>
>> Probably a lot; OS/2 users aren't exactly a progressive bunch.= I know one
>> that is still using a prehistoric version of lSwitcher;-)
>
> You think that's prehistoric? You should see the WordPerfect macro= s I'm
> writing lately ;p
>

:-)

> Point taken, though (listening to Lewis' input as well -- I used t= he warp
> 3 launcher on Warp 4 for ages, hehe).
>

As OS/2 users, we value our freedom of choice as opposed to whatever the software publishers *think* is best for us. The LaunchPad caught on quickly=
for many of us, and served us well for some time. Heck, it took me a long <= br> time to switch away from WarpCenter to XCenter.

>>> Then it's all a matter of documenting things properly (do = not do this
>>> and that for such and such reason: just a twist on the current= docs) and
>>> wait for reports of the three people in the entire universe wh= o still
>>> see something break up in their systems.
>>
>> Fortunately they never bother to report anything. Think my breakin= g of all
>> the non-English languages in 2.91 and never hearing anything about= it.
>
> Hey, *I* reported that. Maybe not in time for 2.91, but...
>
> ...
>>> I'll have a look at that later. I've changed a couple = of strings to stay
>>> closer to the current English menu (lSwitcher settings -> P= roperties,
>>> and help mnemonics).
>>
>> Am I to read this that I need to change the hotkeys again. Remembe= r the
>> mnemonics and hotkeys must match.
>
> As you probably have realized by now, no; I meant the mnemonics for &q= uot;Help"
> on the taskbar menu. So those two letters change on that menu alone, a= nd
> the rest is untouched.
>
>>> Yeah, I've written better pieces. Have a look at the scree= nshot.
>>> 'Programs' is a WPS folder: you can make it 'Close= ' but not 'Quit'.
>>> Maybe the 'Close' menu should be replaced by its first= child item, which
>>> is the only one that works in that situation.
>>
>> I think Quit just needs to be removed it has no advantage over clo= se and
>> mostly doesn't work.
>
> It seems to work here for *applications* (not WPS folders). I am not c= lear
> on the (dis)advantages when closing programs, though, but if there are=
> none, why was it there in the first place?
>

I think Gregg's point is that Quit doesn't really work any better o= r worse
than Close. IOW, I've never had a running process refuse to close but w= as
then able to use Quit. It works, surely, but when it does, Close should als= o
work, so there's no real advantage to having the extra option.

It may be= possible the application treats them differently.=C2=A0 I could be conflat= ing OS's here but an example I've seen it is in Firefox saving or n= ot saving the tabs... close I _think_ closes them while quit saves them (th= at may be backwards).=C2=A0 I am not sure if other apps may save or not dep= ending on which is selected.=C2=A0=C2=A0

> Having seen r13b, I think I concur with Lewis: I'd prefer a single= 'Close'
> lSwitcher menu entry for folders in the taskbar (since only that makes=
> sense), but for programs, and if possible, I'd rather have a '= Close'
> submenu with the different methods. I think Dos/Sigkill look a bit > daunting, not being normal words and that, and it would be better if a= t
> least non-tech-savvy people can tell right away they're just modes= of
> closing a task.
>

Exactly.

>>>>> -Packaging: any particular reason why we keep old Engl= ish readmes,
>>>>> i.e.
>>>>> readme.v*?
>>>>
>>>> I always package the historic readmes on my first release.= They can
>>>> probably go away now. Thanks
>
> Don't forget for the GA - they're still in the rc13 wpi, I don= 't know
> whether intentionally.
>
>>> Thank you for all you do ^^
>>
>> Your welcome. Thanks for your help and translations.
>
> :)
>

Cheers

--
Lewis


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