From: "Mike O'Connor" Received: from [192.168.100.201] (HELO mail.2rosenthals.com) by 2rosenthals.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.16) with ESMTP id 2294108 for os2-wireless_users@2rosenthals.com; Fri, 26 Mar 2010 01:19:03 -0400 Received: from secmgr-va.2rosenthals.com ([162.83.95.194] helo=mail2.2rosenthals.com) by secmgr-ny.randr with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.43) id 1Nv1wj-0005Dc-2P for os2-wireless_users@2rosenthals.com; Fri, 26 Mar 2010 01:19:02 -0400 Received: from bld-mail14.adl6.internode.on.net ([150.101.137.99]:45034 helo=mail.internode.on.net) by mail2.2rosenthals.com with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Nv1wX-0006OM-1J for os2-wireless_users@2rosenthals.com; Fri, 26 Mar 2010 01:18:50 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.102] (unverified [118.208.19.246]) by mail.internode.on.net (SurgeMail 3.8f2) with ESMTP id 18650471-1927428 for multiple; Fri, 26 Mar 2010 15:33:28 +1030 (CDT) X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A020205.4BAC43BA.00F7,ss=1,fgs=0 Message-ID: <4BAC401E.20409@austarnet.com.au> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 15:03:26 +1000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (OS/2; U; Warp 4.5; en-US; rv:1.8.1.23) Gecko/20090906 SeaMonkey/1.1.18 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: OS/2 Wireless Users Mailing List Subject: Re: [OS2Wireless] Wireless router (mainly OFF TOPIC) References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi t'other Mike, Thank you very much for your input - it should probably be re-broadcast over a selection of OS/2-eCS lists/groups for promulgation! That was a very clear and superb explanation. I worked all my adult life - 1958 - 1995 (when I had to resign for medical reasons) in Aviation Meteorology, tracking (on WX Radar 1.5 degree beamwidth elevated 1.5 degrees above horizontal, at 3 rpm, also scanning vertically to determine the freezing level and cloud bases and tops (up to 84,000 ft in Darwin, in the Northern Territory, the world's record highest) in a blacked out windowless room with heavy black rubber curtains to exclude any incident light) and forecasting Thunderstorms and associated Terminal Area Extreme Turbulence was a major component of my duties with the Australian Bureau of Meteorology, as Shift Supervisor and Briefing Officer for both International airlines and Domestic too at major airports like Sydney/ Brisbane/ Darwin/ Cairns/ Townsville and on Military bases here in Australia. Naturally I'm always monitoring Severe Weather events here from www.bom.gov.au (equivalent of the NOOA/NWS (is it still called that these days?), and whenever storms get within 20 km of here, and heading this way (only have 4 Doppler Radars in the whole of Australia, to date -- first was between the NSW/Queensland border and Brisbane, a couple of years ago, followed by adelaide in S.Australia, then Melbourne, and recently Sydney), I shut all systems down, and pull all plugs (except the refrigerator) and the landline phone cables - my sole home landline phone is a transportable 5.8GHz Panasonic - base-station is next to my bed, plus the ADSL2 line from the Central Splitter to the Gateway "modem". Then I wait until all activity has passed before hooking up the Gateway "modem" and powering up the T43 - to check the Radar/ Satellite photos to confirm before re-plugging and switching everything else! The weather I experienced here in April 2006 was not forecast BTW! Once again many thanks for the knowledgeable input. I learned a lot from that! Mike Luther wrote: > ** Reply to note from "OS/2 Wireless Users Mailing List" > Thu, 25 Mar 2010 21:48:16 -0400 > > Serious professional advice from a NARTE certified Master Telecommunications > Engineer since 1985 here about lightning. > > >> Wow! That's all I can think to say about such a massive lightening strike and >> the negative results. No, that's not true. I think you just convinced me to >> do two things: >> >> 1] Buy a UPS regardless of the physical size of the unit and find room for it >> no matter what! 2] Get myself some renter's insurance, regardless of the >> monthly or yearly premium! >> > > Smart decision. But the folks here need to know some real radio facts about > lightning to make a proper decision on protection. As a commercial broadcast > engineer since even the late 1950's and even Chief Engineer for the Texas Aggie > WTAW radio station back then paying my way through A&M, I offer some serious > information. > > Lightning is *NOT* electricity as most people think about that. It is, for > fact, a very intense radio wave issue! As such, it does *NOT* travel through a > wire or metal object! It actually travels on the SURFACE of it. Further, since > it is a radio wave and it oscillates, it also focuses on some frequency during > the actual strike, which CHANGES as the strike takes place in those thousandths > of a second! Frequency means that, as to the stroke going through the > atmosphere or down the surface of a tree, wire; whatever, it has a wavelength > just like a broadcast station transmitter output or TV station. Radio waves are > curious, in that for each QUARTER wavelength we see a MAXIMUM current for > MINIMUM voltage, then a reversal to a MAXIMUM voltage for a MINIMUM current a > quarter wave down the path from there. > > The air gap voltage required in the atmosphere for an arc to proceed through it > is perhaps 35,000 or so volts per inch. Think about that. How many million > volts per bolt? Yes, the air is burned into a conduction path, the SURFACE of > which is conducting the lightning. But wait! Remember, a million volts at one > end of the quarter wave point and maybe a thousand amperes current? Then a > quarter wave later a million amperes and then a thousand volts? Interesting. > > The absolute 'intent' of a lightning bolt which travels between a cloud and > ground, because it MUST travel on the SURFACE of the conductor, is to actually > spread itself out across the SURFACE of the earth at that end of the path. Well > fine, if as part of the strike conduction path, the surface travel down to the > earth terminates in such a way that on the SURFACE of whatever conductor, that > surface is actually touching and bonded to the surface of the earth. But in the > case of the horrid hit described earlier here, if the metal surface of the > conductor carries it down into a hollow shaft below the surface of the earth, > and thence down the surface of the metal wires to other houses, apartments; > whatever, the only path toward the surface of the earth will be as described. > Through MASSIVE damage sites inside the building(s)! > > As well, because the strike is a huge magnetic pulse issue, a strike also > radiates that same Electro Magnetic Pulse (EMP) out away from it. Thus even > though the strike hits your neighbor's house, the pulse lights up EVERY wire in > it's path, at the speed of light, as the energy radiates away from the hit as > well. Interesting. > > OK, how do we REALLY protect against lightning? Answers. > > That NEMA ground rod at your power meter entrance to the building is there > generically for this reason as well as bonding the power line ground wire to > ground from your electric service. But the real problem is that this NEMA > ground rod is driven INTO the ground! Which does *NOT* do much good for the > radio wave lighting strike which is traveling trying to reach the SURFACE of the > earth. If you really want to use this to protect your home, apartment or > whatever, the proper way to do this is to fan out a little wire radial group in > a circle around that NEMA ground rod, about six or eight feet long for each > wire. Like the spokes on a wagon wheel. Which go down only a small inch or so > at GROUND level from the NEMA rod. What that does is to properly shift the > lightning bolt to the SURFACE of the ground as it roars down the ground wire to > that NEMA ground rod. You do the same thing for the bottoms of TV antenna > poles, metal flag poles, the wire that carries lighting arrester spikes at the > top of the buidling to the ground. > > Further, you NEVER pass antenna wires directly into the attic or through the > window into the place - unless - you have a proper lightning arrestor plasma > device which lets the shock arc through it from the SURFACE of the wire that > goes into the building to a good heavy flat sheet copper strip with a wide > surface to the ground. And then out along the surface like the NEMA rod deal. > A round wire has little surface, right? The proper lightning ground is the flat > surface of a copper strip, even though it is rather thin. > > Plus the proper place to put the lightning protection on the power, phone lines, > TV cable system and so on is at this common place near your power meter and so > on. That to divert the bolt AWAY from the bulding. You really want it all to > be protected together from a common decent protection set of devices. Even to a > for real master protection set of devices on your meter, and NOT these deals you > buy to 'protect' your stuff in the house. Yes, the do OK for noise. But not > for lightning. About the only thing they are good for is the insurance you may > get with them too. Scowl. > > Now we go inside. But before we do please note. OK, so the average quarter > wavelength of the huge bolt is at 1 Megahertz, 1000 Khz on your AM radio dial. > But the bolt also can and does have an average quarter wavelength of only say > EIGHT feet as well with frequencies way up in the TV channel area at points in > it's split second of lifespan. Ouch. Which are still traveling over the > OUTSIDE of all the wires going through your building if you let it in too. > > AHA! Now you know why in many strikes that penetrate a building, you'll see > your TV blown to bits on one part of the same power circuit that doesn't fry > your guitar amp eight feet away. Hmmmmmm. More important, there is a HUGE > issue here very few people know and understand about so-called surge protector > plug boxes you get to 'protect' your computer; guitar amp -- and so on. These > protector devices, at least virtually all of them, work by letting a pulse of > over a couple hundred volts arc across a path to the GROUND neutral, the big > round rod on a three prong power plug. Well so what? Remember that because > lightning is a radio wave, just because it shunts the surge to that green wire > ground connection, where is that, in terms of quarter wave spacing, for the hot > spots on the lighting bolt as that happens? > > Surprise! Ground, in this case, may not even be back toward the electric panel > and the NEMA rod. Instead, it may be actually going down the SURFACE of that > same green wire INTO your computer, your guitar amplifier, your TV set! Now > watch what else ABSOLUTELY happens to virtually all modern electronic gear. > Years ago we gave up metal transformer power supplies for such things. All of > the conversion from 120 volts or 240 volt of AC (Alternating Current) down the > power lines to the DC (Direct Current) for the equipment, is done through what > is now switching power supplies. But that is a DISASTER for a voltage spike > which comes IN on the green ground wire, seeking out the phone line ground, > perhaps, or .. worse .. your PRINTER! Because your laser printer draws a high > power amount you can't pay for UPS coverage. So you plug it in to the power > plug and then connect it with a metal ground wire to your computer which is on > your UPS. Get the idea? > > What happens is that the lightning strike, even only a hundred volts maybe by > the time it gets here, raises the GROUND foils of your computer above the GROUND > level for a SURFACE radio wave for the difference of 120 volts AC to 12 volts DC > and... Surprise! If it is a 300 volt pulse, your ground foils are 30 volts > above ground and POOF your whole computer, guitar amp, TV set, stereo is blown > to bits. It is not at all unusual for even a strike on your neighbor's place to > surge your power lines up to 600 volts or so. Not at all. > > Bottom line. The ONLY way to use a UPS to protect anything is to make SURE that > your UPS uses a METAL TRANSFORMER to isolate the house from whatever you are > trying to protect. Why? Because the lightning bolt cannot pass through the > metal pig iron between the primary coil and the secondary coil wires in it. > Thus that really DOES ISOLATE your equipment from the pulse. But ONLY if you > protect ALL of the devices on the output side. And do *NOT* run your printer > elsewhere and then connect it to your computer. Or use any kind of phone line > or cable modem connection metal wire to another ground possible source to the > protected device. Without thinking carefully how it is absolutely protected to > keep the pulse out of the building and shunted to ground properly. > > There does happen to be a form of surge protector that does not have this > horrible pulse clamp effect. But it is quite rare. It uses an inductor choke > and capacitor to clamp the pulse to the HOUSE side of the power line service and > like the transformer style device, blocks the pulse from crawling on the surface > of the wire into your equipment. It sure isn't sold in Walmart, Lowes, HEB or > any place like that folks. > > Final notes here. If you are using huge antenna farm stuff like I do as a > serious ham radio operator with towers all over the place at my site, you also > may be required to put a substantial metal wire circular ring around the house > which bonds the various sink ground spoke sites at several places going into the > building! And, in fact, my site gets a direct hit on the average of at least > twice a year big time. My towers are all grounded and radial spanned at the > bottoms for protection purposes. As well the feed lines are all brought in > either at underground level, properly protected by plasma arc protectors there > at tower connections. Or in the proper ground plate side panel entry points > that do properly connect to the ground. I have had this careful protection > since about 1980 at the site. And direct hit after direct hit, I have NEVER > since ever had a computer failure or radio or any failure, other than a couple > modem failures ever since properly protecting it. > > But I do use all proper pig iron UPS stuff there. Which in my case has been for > years the APC full professional sine wave output Smart UPS units. As well all > the computer equipment on the site is also actually still pig iron linear power > supply relay rack stuff. I use *NO* switching power supply stuff at all in any > rural heavy tower radio site locations, like we also never do at broadcast > stations. Which get hit a heck of a lot more with their 250-500 foot high > towers that are a lot higher than mine, chuckle. And at WTAW's 1150KHz AM > frequency is a 256 foot quarter wave high tower. Which we took about 60 hits a > year while I was Chief Engineer there paying my way through A&M. And never once > lost anything from an antenna strike. > > Sorry for all the words. I am just trying to help here.. > > >> Do you have any quick methods of how-to size up what power-level of UPS to >> buy? I know I can go to google.com and find the info but if you have some >> quick method off the top of your head it will save me the time of reading and >> figuring out for myself what I need. Not to mention the fact that also I >> trust your judgment more so than what I might find on the 'net. >> > > You have to totalize the wattage level use of the electronic equipment you wish > to protect. Then you figure out how long the batteries of the UPS will crank > out that much wattage to keep things going. Either so you can shut it down if > you are hit, or it will go on until the real chances are that decent power will > be restored. At my ham radio site, when I am not there, the APC UPS with the > battery power level available to it, will keep the simple computer, phone line > access and low level VHF data service going for about 24 hours. I've only once > since the 1980's ever not been able to get out there in more than 24 hours to > shut things down and police the things if I'm not there on site when bad things > happen to the power at this very rural location. > > Not the same Mike. > > >> Thanks Mike, seriously! You've knocked some digital sense into this old >> brain-pan of mine, and for that I am grateful. I'd be sick if I lost even >> half of my gear! >> >> Greg >> > > But with the best of my professional heart at work here to help not only you but > the otheres who might benefit from this. > > > > --> Sleep well; OS2's still awake! ;) > > Mike Luther > Mike.Luther@ziplog.com > Mike.Luther@f3001.n117.z1.fidonet.org > Regards, Mike O'Connor -- Failed the exam for -------------------- MCSE - Minesweeper Consultant and Solitaire Expert -------------------- Personal replies to any of : mikeoc (at) internode (dot) on (dot) net mikeoc (at) austarnet (dot) com (dot) au majilok (at) gmail (dot) com [Please ZIP any attachments, other than GIF/JPG or plain-text] If you are missing a response from me - check Tweed Heads WX status at: http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDR663.loop.shtml#skip