Mailing List virtualized_ecs_users@2rosenthals.com Archived Message #158

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From: "Doug Bissett" <virtualized_ecs_users@2rosenthals.com> Full Headers Undecoded message Subject: Re: [Virtualized eCS] Virtual box 6.0.14 r 133895, acpi shutdown with AOS 5.0.3 and virtual cpu - 2 cpu success Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2020 12:06:04 -0700 (MST) To: "Virtualized eCS Users Mailing List" <virtualized_ecs_users@2rosenthals.com>

On 2020-01-28, at 10:01:57, Massimo S. wrote:
>
>
>
>Il 28/01/2020 04:56, Doug Bissett ha scritto:

...snip...

>>I don't know anything about any of them. I use VMs to be able to
run
>>various versions of software, so I can try things, when something
>>isn't working. At the moment, I don't have a good setup to try
>>running a FTP server, so I can't try that without doing another
>>install.
>
>it's a different kind of use, you run guests for lab purposes,
>for devs use, or test use

True...

>i must run VMs for server use (web, email, ftpd, webmail etc..)
>so they must run 24 hours per day
>and they have to be:
>
>1) stable and reliable
>2) fast in performances more or less like on the bare metal
>3) they must bkup theirself without having to be powered off
>
>point 1 and 3 we are OK now with Vbox
>the bad point is the number 2 and only for LAN speed

It would be interesting to find the cause. It should be just as fast as
bare metal, but there are so many factors involved, that it could be
difficult to find out why it is slower.

>>>
>>>>>if i find a free sw for live bkups of VMs under ESX
>>>>>i will go with ESX has hypervisor
>>>>>
>>>>>massimo
>>>>From the little that I know about ESX, it does not virtualize a
>>>>machine. It shares a real machine with more than one
operating
>>>>system. If it works, use it.
>>>
>>>i still have to find how to schedule bkups
>>>how to add notifications
>>>
>>>i've found "GhettoVCB"* that's free runs under ESX free
>>hypervisor
>>>and do live bkups (i mean bkups without turning off the VMs)
>>>but i still have to find a way to schedule it
>>>e.g. one time per night...
>>I never bothered under windows, although the Task Scheduler
>>should run a program, at a scheduled time. Most operating
systems
>>have some sort of Cron program.
>
>you are a bit confused
>Vmware Vsphere ESX Hypervisor (free, but also the versions not
free)
>has its own OS that runs on the bare metal and it's not Windows
>
>( while MS Hyper-V runs on Windows core, a free version of
>Windows server that comes without the GUI, but has a free
>and very powerful offline web gui, it's name is "WAC"
>https://docs.microsoft.com/it-it/windows-server/manage/windows-
admin-cen
>ter/overview )
>
>maybe noone knows here, but there is a Windows server free
>it's name is Windows server core, it has no windows gui
>but you can admin it with batchs, powershell and WAC

Interesting. Windows, that isn't windows.  I can't think of any
possible use for something like that, but it is good to know about
these things.

>
>>>and it uses NFS as protocol that i don't like so much
>>>anyway i also have a Qnap nap that use NFS
>>>so i could use it as storage for bkups...
>>>
>>>* https://communities.vmware.com/docs/DOC-8760
>>I don't use windows enough to worry about nightly backups.
>again VMware vsphere esx hypervisor don't runs on Windows
>it's a CD that you install on bare metal and you have
>a web gui to administer it
>you can also activate an ssh with a shell that's similar to *nix
>
>>I use
>>RSync under OS/2 (using the DragText scheduler). There is
>>DeltaCopy, that runs RSync under windows. I don't know if it
would
>>do what you want.
>
>i use rsync under eCS to bkup application servers like mail, web
server
>etc..
>
>all theese kind of application servers bkups will stay also on my
new
>Virtualized architecture, but i also want the full bkup of running
VMs
>i don't want to have to reinstall eCS or AOS if a server die

It seems that multiple backups, using different methods, on different
types of backup hardware, is a good idea, even when a RAID is
used. It was the RAID unit, that took out everything, when Arca
Noae lost their servers.

>i want to simply import the VMs bkups on the server 2 and play
the VMs

I know that VBox will Export a complete VM to a file, and it can
then Import that file to recreate the VM. I have done that a few
times, and it seems to work. I don't know if it will Export a running
VM (probably not).

>>>>I still think you have a bad setup in VBox, but I don't have the
>>time
>>>>to try to figure it out.
>>>the CPU is a xeon 8cores but clocked at 2Ghz, i guess that
Vbox
>>is very
>>>"clock/frequency" oriented, the much higher is the clock, the
faster
>>are
>>>performances
>>There are a lot of pieces that fit together, to improve
performance.
>>A fast host definitely helps, but that isn't the only thing.
>
>yes, but compeared with MS Hyper-V or Vmware Vsphere, Vbox
>it seems very limited to me...

It is limited, but it should work near full speed, for what you are
doing. Something is wrong.

I have an old P4 processor, with 1 GB of memory, that I use for
much the same things that you mention. Network speed is not an
issue, although there are a few things that I haven't figured out. For
instance, up until about a year ago, windows, using a SAMBA
connection to copy a large file to the server, claimed 20 MBs (on a
Gbit network), and OS/2 (the P4) claimed 16 Mbs. There was a
windows update, and windows started claiming 16 Gbs, which
agreed with OS/2. That seems to be as fast as that connection will
go. However, If I use another windows machine, to connect to the
P4, at the same time, they both go at about 15 Mbs (the P4 then
shows 30 Mbs). If I add another windows machine, they all run at
about 13 Mbs, and the P4 shows about 39 Mbs. My conclusion is,
that windows is governing the speed, somehow, because OS/2 can
certainly go much faster than any individual connection from
windows. I do see similar numbers, when I use OS/2 instead of
windows, so there is something else involved.

>
>>>this is my tought at the moment
>>>as far from my tests, MS free Hyper-V is way the faster
>>hypervisor
>>>around
>>>but unfortunately eCS/AOS don't run under it :(
>>>this one does everything, live bkups, live replica and
>>>comes with a number of interesting features
>>AFAIK, Hyper-V only works with windows guests.
>
>absolutely not, this is a fake

As I mentioned, I don't know much about Hyper-V.

>Hyper-V is tested, used and certified to run also
>a number of linux distros (redhat, ubuntu, suse etc...)
>
>old versions of HV also ran eCS2.2b, but after some
>update (i guess version 8 of VMs it's no more compatible)

It would not surprise me, at all, to find out that it was programmed to
recognize OS/2, and refuse to run it, just because it is OS/2.

>>>>there was a post, some time ago, in this mail
>>>>list, about how to make a modern VBox setup for OS/2
>>(probably
>>>>eCS at the time)
>>>
>>>i'm subscribed since 3th jan 2020 :(
>>>
>>>
>>>massimo
>>Web archives are publicly available at:
http://lists.2rosenthals.com,
>>but it seems that a lot of content went missing, when the Arca
Noae
>>servers crashed. I keep them for one year, then delete them.
What
>>you need would be somewhere in the middle of the missing stuff.
>>I guess I need to do the setup thing all over again, when I find the
>>time.
>
>anyway let's try to understand if there is something no good
>let's take VM1:
>
>general:
>type: IBM OS/2
>version: eComStation

That is okay for eCS (based on MCP2). ArcaOS is closer to Warp
4.5 (based on warp server). I don't think there is much difference,
but it could make wrong assumptions.

>advanced: shared clipboard: shared

Try these disabled, to see if anything changes. I have heard
comments about problems with that. I never enable them.

>system:
>memory: 4096 MB

Probably way too much (that will also slow down the host). In fact,
OS/2 can only use somewhere near 3500 MB, depending on the
exact machine configuration. I would suggest using 2000 MB (not
even 2 GB). I find, with my P4 server, which has 1 GB of memory,
that it NEVER uses that much memory. In fact I have never seen it
use more than about 600 MB.

>boot order: CD and HDD
>chipset: PIIX3
>point dev: PS/2 mouse
>extended functions: I/O APIC on
>processors: 2

I am still surprised that this doesn't cause problems.

>execution cap: 100%
>estended features: PAE/NX: on

AH!, Now this might cause problems. The only thing, in OS/2, that
can use PAE, is the QSINIT RAMDISK (the ArcaOS loader, is
QSINIT, and the ArcaOS RAMDISK is from QSINIT). Some time
ago, the guy who wrote that software has said that there are
problems with PAE/NX in VBox. That may have changed, but I
doubt it. Try turning it off.

>Vt-x/AMD-V nidificate: off

This setting will be disabled, when you turn off PAE/NX.

>acceleration:
>default
>VT-x/AMD-V: on

I don't see this in the VBox 6.1.2 setup, any more.
Paravirtualization Interface should be set to Legacy, which would
seem to be the same thing. Of course, VT-x/AMD-V must be
enabled in the BIOS too.

>paging nidificate: off

Nested paging can (should) be on. This means that the host file
system can cache the file that the guest uses as a hard disk. It may
not make a lot of difference, if the host disk is a SSD.

>screen:
>all default values

Default should be okay, most of the time. I usually change Video
Memory to 15 or 24 MB, depending on how big the host screen is. It
usually insists on more, if it needs more memory to run the guest in
full screen. Apparently, it doesn't actually allocate the memory,
unless it is needed.

>storage: IDE/PIIX4

Hmmm. This should be AHCI (but be sure the OS2AHCI driver is
configured in CONFIG.SYS, before changing it). CONFIG.SYS
should contain:
BASEDEV=OS2AHCI.ADD /n /f
Put it before the DANI driver line, if you leave both in CONFIG.SYS
(recommended, when changing it).

>use host cache I/O: yes
>type of storage: vmdk file

I use VDI, but VMDK is okay.

>ide primary master

Change that to SATA, so it can work as AHCI.

>ssd: yes

You might try turning this off. I doubt if it will help, but it is
something to try.

>audio: disabled

If you do use audio, select the Sound Blaster 16 PNP.

>lan:
>
>my architecture need 2 NICs per VM
>
>nic 1
>connection: NIC with bridge
>name: Intel I350 Gigabit Network COnnection
>advanced:
>type: INtel PRO/1000 MT server (82545EM)
>mode: permit all
>mac ....
>cable: connected
>
>nic 2
>connection: NIC with bridge
>name: Intel I350 Gigabit Network COnnection 2
>advanced:
>type: INtel PRO/1000 MT server (82545EM)
>mode: permit all

I don't know what mode really does. Promiscuous mode is used to
allow a NIC to be used by something like VBox, but you can't run a
VBox inside of a VBox. I would try turning that off.

I don't know, exactly, how you connect the networks, but OS/2
cannot connect to two networks that are in the same IP address
range.

>mac .......
>cable: connected
>
>serial ports: all disabled
>usb: all disabled
>
>that's all
>
>the VMs are stored on a single Kingston SSD
>(in the future will run on a raid1-mirroring with Samsung evo SSD)
>
>if i increase the core number of the guest VM, the lan speed (ftp
>datarates improves)

I think your biggest slow down, is using IDE rather than
SATA/AHCI. Promiscuous mode, on the NICs, may affect network
speed, and would not be used by anything in OS/2. I do know that
having it on will force the NIC to handle every network packet that
goes by, whether it is for that machine, or not (meaning the VM).
When it is off, it will just ignore any packet that goes by, unless it is
for that machine. The host needs to have promiscuous mode on, so
that VBox can use it.

As I said, it all works together, and any one of those things could
cause a performance problem.
--
****************************
From Doug Bissett's ArcaOS system
dougb007 at telus.net
****************************
... "New revenues" is the new code word for "more taxes".

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